40 replies to this topic

[Volyen]

Now let me reason with everyone on this. I'm level 74 and 94% right now, as I post this, and I have just killed 1 moredhel miner. The miner brought me down to 6000hp and 0 endurance from 8900hp and 11,000 endurance. This mob is around my level and everything else I hunt right now is very low and does not give very much experience at all. Clearing all of Hadati Caves gives me like, 5% I think? And that's if it's not being bashed already.

After attacking this mob I now have to wait for 15-30 seconds with a bandage on myself to get back up to full so I can attack another mob. I believe that there is -way- too much downtime when bashing, especially for those of us getting up in level and having to find areas like Mac Mordain to hunt.

My suggestion to make the downtime a little less crazy is to introduce some sort of healing potion, that can only be used out of combat (Let me explain). When I say out of combat I mean out of combat with a mob. To fix this being abused by people who are fighting other players, after a player attacks you or you attack a player, it puts a hidden 1 minute or so timer on you, during which you cannot use this potion, even if you are out of combat. This is to prevent people from just fleeing once to take a sip, and then getting back in to fight some more.

I dunno just an idea for those of us who hate how much downtime we have bashing.

[Zoticus]

Bandage + sleep. Speeds it up.

Pots for general use will probably be avoided, I think.

[Marguk]

Steamroll smaller stuff. I get more exp clearing out Yarsog/Silban/Lions during the same amount of time spent bashing than I do when trying Sarth monks or moredhel because there's no stopping and they die in 2-3 hits without crits.

[Kalos]

Well, I can't even solo Mac Mordain at 75 ( priiiiestsss! ) so I've little sympathy.

Group up if you want to bash McMdCdl, or do like the rest of us and steam roll Mount Troll Camp|Hadati Spirits|Yarsog|Silban.

[Ekard]

Volyen, on Feb 7 2010, 11:22 PM, said:

Now let me reason with everyone on this. I'm level 74 and 94% right now, as I post this, and I have just killed 1 moredhel miner. The miner brought me down to 6000hp and 0 endurance from 8900hp and 11,000 endurance. This mob is around my level and everything else I hunt right now is very low and does not give very much experience at all. Clearing all of Hadati Caves gives me like, 5% I think? And that's if it's not being bashed already.

After attacking this mob I now have to wait for 15-30 seconds with a bandage on myself to get back up to full so I can attack another mob. I believe that there is -way- too much downtime when bashing, especially for those of us getting up in level and having to find areas like Mac Mordain to hunt.

My suggestion to make the downtime a little less crazy is to introduce some sort of healing potion, that can only be used out of combat (Let me explain). When I say out of combat I mean out of combat with a mob. To fix this being abused by people who are fighting other players, after a player attacks you or you attack a player, it puts a hidden 1 minute or so timer on you, during which you cannot use this potion, even if you are out of combat. This is to prevent people from just fleeing once to take a sip, and then getting back in to fight some more.

I dunno just an idea for those of us who hate how much downtime we have bashing.

Damn you whole 5% for hadati caves! I want! I got like 0,02-0,03% for moredhel/ghost in Hadati.
And when Moredhels in Cadal are best exp, and maybe i even could solo them, its too risky to bother doing it alone. 5% lose is too much.
Prefer easier targets, almoust no death risk and downtime after the fights is much shorter.

You have to used to it that bashing here is different then in other IRE games. It will be much harder to get to level 100 as it is.
You have to bash easier targets ot bash in group to lower death risk and downtime.

[Yoink]

I know this is a bit off-topic, but flee doesn't work AT ALL!
If you're trying to kill more than one thing it pretty much guarantees death, because there's no way to throw something at an enemy from another room to draw them away or anything, and flee doesn't work full stop.

[Ekard]

Flee works. But not like you have described.
Its like name state FLEE, so you use it once to flee from room end "combat mode" and you continue to move another few rooms escaping from the chasing mobs. It gives you a bit time to heal/regen and fight afain with chasing mobs. If there is too much for you to handle then you have to escape from local area. If you leave area then mobs stops chasing you.

[Marguk]

Making overdrive work without balance associated with it would make the skill a lot more useful and reduce downtime.

[Volyen]

And this is exactly my point Ekard. Bashing here is hard, -really- hard. I know that they don't want it to be easy to get past a certain point but come on. Mac Mordain is the hardest there is and our highest level players still won't bother doing it alone. I see Quilana there often but she always has someone with her.

Here's another idea, when you add more areas, add large groups of mobs clumped together, each with a very -large- amount of life, but reduce the damage they all do. Then you can have some randomly aggro or whatever, but this way, since they aren't doing 2000 damage a hit, you can actually flee if you have multiple on you, and get away, without as much risk for -5%, which at 80 is like losing 2 hours of straight bashing. (Or more?)

[Calisno]

Quote

You have to used to it that bashing here is different then in other IRE games.

This. ^

I don't know why people post things like the OP did along with "I know bashing here is supposed to be hard, but..." You just said it yourself! That's the reason it's so hard! You have to stop comparing it to other IRE games where 80-100 is the goal for PK.

There really is no reward for going past 70, so why are so many people so incredibly determined to do so? Either 1. you want bragging rights or 2. you legitly enjoy bashing (uh, gross), and in both cases bashing being faster/easier makes no difference because either 1. it's just as hard for everyone else or 2. it's still bashing.

Please, please tell me why so many people are so convinced that the "slow" pace of bashing past 70 or the downtime necessary to do so past 70 needs "fixing." I'm pretty sure this is the ONLY aspect of MKO's design that has worked well from the beginning - the goal was always 70 for PK, there was supposed to be no/little reward past 70, and going very far past 70 was supposed to be REALLY hard. And all that is true.

[Marguk]

Calisno, on Feb 8 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

This. ^

I don't know why people post things like the OP did along with "I know bashing here is supposed to be hard, but..." You just said it yourself! That's the reason it's so hard! You have to stop comparing it to other IRE games where 80-100 is the goal for PK.

There really is no reward for going past 70, so why are so many people so incredibly determined to do so? Either 1. you want bragging rights or 2. you legitly enjoy bashing (uh, gross), and in both cases bashing being faster/easier makes no difference because either 1. it's just as hard for everyone else or 2. it's still bashing.

Please, please tell me why so many people are so convinced that the "slow" pace of bashing past 70 or the downtime necessary to do so past 70 needs "fixing." I'm pretty sure this is the ONLY aspect of MKO's design that has worked well from the beginning - the goal was always 70 for PK, there was supposed to be no/little reward past 70, and going very far past 70 was supposed to be REALLY hard. And all that is true.

Because it's a new game, and some people want to be the first to hit 100...even if there is little/no reward. Others purely enjoy bashing. Still others use it as a timesink when bored. I think the point is that yes, the game is heavily RP-based, and has a different combat system that means there's a soft cap, but there's no reason to penalize going past 70 and make it as hard as it is. Granted, it's also in "beta" stage, so it will likely (hopefully) get better as time goes on.

[Volyen]

Not all of us have been here from the beginning and know exactly how the people who are designing the game want it to be. I was told that 70 is the goal for PK, but I was not told that the bashing was supposed to be oh so much harder then any other. What I do know is that I enjoy bashing on the rare occasion, but really the enjoyment comes from watching my rank go up and up. I don't care about the bragging rights or what have you, but I do like striving to be the best. However there's a difference between bashing being "hard" and bashing being excessively ridiculous. I'm hitting a wall here at level 75 that I haven't hit in the other IREs until 85+. I can't imagine what it's going to be like at 85, or hell, 90. I feel for the people who take a death and they are level 80.

[Calisno]

Let me reiterate my point:
There is virtually no reward for bashing past 70.

This alone renders all of your arguments for why bashing past 70 should be faster/easier illogical.

Let's consider some arguments people are proposing for why bashing past 70 should be easier:
1.I like bashing. I consider it a hobby/time sink.
Great! Bashing = bashing, whether you are getting .01% for each kill or 10% for each kill. It can still be your hobby or whatever. The fact it's slow doesn't change the basic mechanics. If the down time bores you, do what was suggested and go to an easier area that you can plow through. Oh, wait, that doesn't give you enough exp? Who cares! Your XP is a meaningless number past 70.
2.I bash for bragging rights (a.k.a my XP ranking.)
A lot of people do. The fact that bashing is hard/impossible does not render XP Rankings meaningless. Bashing is hard for everyone, those people worked just as hard as you are now. This way is actually better because it means some random person can't just make a character and bash up to the top ten in a week. Only established players will ever be able to be in the top 50, which makes XP rankings a much more accurate reflection of dedication than XP rankings anywhere else. You won't take a week off and lose 20 rankings.
3.You shouldn't penalize people for bashing past 70.
No one is being penalized. Not being rewarded is not the same as being penalized. Everyone is free to keep pouring their time into bashing, your XP ranking will still go up and you can still spend your time on it. However, what this system does do, is prevent penalizing people who DON'T bash. You can put in a reasonable number of hours to reach 70, then stop when the grind starts and not suffer any significant consequences for it. It's actually AWESOME.

I guess the problem seems to be people are frustrated that their level isn't going up, not realizing/caring that level is a meaningless number past 70, because levels 80, 90, 100, etc hold no reward/incentive.

If things are changed, one of two things will happen:
1.If a reward is added, either the reward will be too great and those who don't have it will be penalized (a la Lusternia) or the reward will not be incentive enough and no one will be satisfied.
2.If bashing is made easier/downtime is reduced, bashing will become too easy, rendering XP Rankings meaningless.

Also, the fact that gaining back 5% at level 75+ is terrible is meaningless as well, because after level 70 your level doesn't matter. You also don't lose 5% to PvP deaths (right?) so you are only penalized for continuing to bash.

[Marguk]

I think the point is, since 70 is the soft cap for pk, why penalize leveling after that? And yes, it is penalizing when it is not nearly so difficult in every other IRE game. All that the level of difficulty is doing is discouraging people from playing here. The game is meant to be fun to play. Bashing at high levels should be challenging, but not absurdly difficult. If someone wants to bash to 100, they're not going to play here the way things are. That does nothing positive for MKO, whereas making the exp gain higher per kill would help everyone from level 1-81 (current highest I think). I actually had a good time last Thursday with the double exp gain. That should be how it is normally.

If you just want to sit at 70 and pk, that's fine. If you want to sit at level 5 and rp all the time instead of bash, that's fine too. The same should hold true for people who enjoy going up in ranking/enjoy bashing. Those people do not have fun doing that at the moment, and having fun is the entire point of playing a game.

[Volyen]

I at least at fun bashing to level 91 in Aetolia. While it wasn't easy, it wasn't ridiculously impossible. I started doing Cliffs of Ayhesa, I could handle them. Actually I could handle a lot of tough areas, I was a Sentinel. The problem is basically no one can handle the "hardest" area right now, and I'm really hoping they plan on adding harder ones. When I say handle, I mean they can go to the area and the benefits of bashing there out way the risks. I can go to Mac Mordain and handle some of the mobs, if I get them one at a time, and I get some nice crits, what have you. The risks to bashing at Mac Mordain far outweigh the benefits though. There are a lot of aggressive mobs and they hit -very- hard. Not even the strongest player right now could possibly handle two, at-least that's my guess. Maybe someone out there can.

[Volyen]

As an aside, maybe a high level warrior could possibly handle two or three, but only if he has a group there to help him finish them off.

[Xaros]

A soldier with last stand could take two sentinels. but yes.

[Garnuk]

Volyen, imagine you were playing the other IRE games, and somebody came along and suggested that they make bashing past level 100 easier /more rewarding. Imagine someone complaied that they can't get to level 150.

That is what this thread sounds like to me.

[Volyen]

Never said I wanted anything more rewarding, but the point is that for some reason, bashing here is more difficult and frustrating than anywhere else (IRE wise), and I was making suggestions as to how to make it a little less frustrating. Suggestion =/= complaining.

[Garnuk]

One thing I like about the bashing experience in MKO is that its not as expensive. Meaning, you don't need to have any money before you go out bashing. And you can easily rat enough coppers for a few bandages if you need to.